Work In Progress Podcast
Work In Progress Podcast
Tatiana Marie is a WIP: from Computer Science Student to Artist
Tatiana's Career Change
Computer Science to Art
What is something that surprised you about your career change?
"I'm surprised to actually be doing something creative. I never thought being an artist, much less selling apparel would ever be feasible. It's a lot simpler than I imagined it to be."
Episode Timestamps
01:00 Introducing Tatiana
03:44 Amazon FBA explanation
04:41 Costs relating to Amazon FBA
05:50 Amazon FBA vs Etsy
08:45 Discussing how owning a store is so different from what Tatiana studied
12:05 Time spent figuring out career switching
18:51 How did Tatiana’s CS degree help her with her current endeavours
20:59 Graduating/Starting a business mid-pandemic
24:42 Current state of business / Venturing into coaching
28:33 Friends and family’s attitude towards Tatiana’s focus shift
32:12 How can an artistically illiterate person start his own print shop
34:14 Highs and lows of Tatiana’s career transition
39:53 Next steps
42:20 Time spent managing an online shop
45:53 Tatiana’s social links
46:30 Closing words
Resources
Blog post is here
Where to find Tatiana Website, Instagram (personal), Instagram (store)
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About Us
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Music was used with permission. Credit: Happy by MBB https://soundcloud.com/mbbofficial
I think I needed to be lost in order to end up on where I am now. Because had I not gone through all that I definitely would not have explored this as a career path at all.
Dana:Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are. Welcome back to the working progress podcast. Today, we're talking to Tatiana, who made a career change from software engineer to opening her own online store just recently. And when I say recently, I'm talking about just a few months ago, depending on when this episode launches, and this is during the time of COVID. So I'm really excited to have her here today to share her story with us. So Tatiana, welcome to our podcast. We're so excited to have you here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Tatiana:Thank you, Dana. I'm super excited to be on here as well. This is actually my first podcast. So that's super exciting for me. Thank you. So as Dana said, my name is Tatiana and I graduated from university about a year ago in December of 2019. So right before COVID hit, which is both good and bad. I was lucky enough to have my graduation ceremony. But the job market was absolutely terrible. So with that, I started computer science and I minor to digital arts. I thought after graduating, I was going to go straight into a full time tech job out in Seattle, Washington. But I think I realized with time some time in that semester that I was really unhappy. And I had been unhappy for a while actually, I think it was just going to be too many transitions at once. And I realized that now's the time to make a change. And I had always love art. And I love being artistic. Although I didn't know at the time, I just knew I needed something more creative. And so I let go of that job offer with absolutely no backup plan, which was a bit ridiculous looking back at it now. But I was kind of doing it for my own mental health at the time. And in the past. Or the first couple months of this year, I spent basically a lot of time researching what I was going to do next, just trying to find inspiration from other people, mostly youtubers trying to get ideas there. And eventually I settled on doing Amazon FBA, which I invested a lot of money and to learn and in courses, and I found a product that I wanted to move forward with. And at the end of the day, I was stalled a bit by utility bills and opening a bank account, which took about a month in itself. And in that time, I just realized that I was always creating. And so I might as well just find a way to make money off of my art. And that basically led me to where I am now. I'm an artist, I not only sell art prints, but I also design t shirts. So I design the graphics that go on T shirts and apparel and then I sell that on both my own website as well as on Etsy. And then I've just shared my whole journey on YouTube as well.
Dana:So I heard something that I've never heard before. Maybe you could explain a little bit. What's the Amazon FBA?
Tatiana:Yeah, so Amazon FBA stands for Amazon fulfillment, or Fulfillment by Amazon. And okay, what it is it's very similar to drop shipping, but essentially you contact a supplier. Most commonly that's going to be in China, but you can also source locally, and you find a product, there's a lot of science behind I guess choosing the right product, and you orders samples, you throw on your own brand label on it, as well as you make little modifications to make your product a little different than your competitors and better of course, and then you send that product off to an Amazon warehouse and you can make your Amazon listing that way. So whenever someone orders from your Amazon site, or store, then Amazon packages that product and delivers it to them.
Dana:Well, okay, so you don't actually it doesn't actually go through you. They package it for you and Okay, and how much do you have to invest upfront?
Tatiana:So Amazon FBA is definitely not a low upfront cost type of business. I'd say because you are ordering in bulk, you'll tend to spend around like anywhere from 3000 to $5,000 up front, in in just getting sample orders in shipping your supplies overseas, in storing them in the warehouse. It's definitely super expensive. And then you have your marketing you have to worry about. So so there's a lot that goes into it. Not only that, but also a lot of people invest in courses upfront. So I know the most popular course is around like $5,000, which is a lot of money for me. So that's not something I was able to invest in. But the one I invested in was still $1,000 and still super useful. But even that is a lot of money. So definitely not a low risk type of business to get started with but still super exciting. And I think with high risk can come high reward as well.
Dana:Why did you pick this over Etsy?
Tatiana:So originally I chose Amazon FBA because I guess I Funny enough, I was on YouTube and I found another youtuber whose name was Tatiana, and I got like a little excited because you know, you know, many Tatiana's in your life now. Yeah, so I started watching her videos, and she was just super knowledgeable on everything, Amazon FBA, because going into this, I also knew nothing of it, I didn't even know it existed. And I just felt that it was a really great way to get into the e commerce space. Because actually, before that, I was thinking of starting my own clothing boutique. But after discussing that idea with my parents, I don't think they were too fond of it. And I kind of understood why it is a very competitive space. And especially for me coming in with no prior business experience, I think it would have been a little risky, because you do hold on to a lot of inventory. And I mean, I didn't really know what I was doing at the time. So I thought Amazon FBA was a better way of doing it, because I'm not physically holding on to these products. I'm more so managing it, and I still have control. And it was still exciting for me to be able to do this whole research process to learn the e commerce space and get started there. So that's why I started with that, I guess, aren't really hadn't come into my head at that point. I guess I just was doing it for fun. And then when I was waiting for my bank statement, as well as my utility bill under my business name to come in, that's when I was like, hey, like, let me search up how I can sell my art prints. Because over, I think, trying to think probably like last semester or so. Or the last semester I was in college, I created this art collage. It was a fun piece is basically a bunch of female line figures. And I threw it onto a poster. And I made one for myself because I wanted it in my room. And I realized that a lot of my friends wanted it too. So I started selling it to them. So at this point, I was thinking, Okay, there's some demand for it, I might as well find a way to continue selling my art because I enjoy it. And so I started looking into that online as like, what printers Do I need to buy? What kind of paper do I printed on? How do I do this. And in doing so I came across print on demand. And that's where basically, I upload my designs on to whatever apparel I want, or even my art prints. And then this other company will print it on the shirts, on the hoodies on the mugs, whatever item I choose, and then they will sell it and send it off to the customer. So I'm basically selling clothes that are made to order they aren't made until someone actually orders them. And so that is very low risk, low upfront cost kind of business. And I think for me, it's been a really great introduction to the e commerce space.
Dana:I see. So before this, have you always known that you would be doing something artistic or you know, owning your own store? Because this is quite different from where you went to school.
Tatiana:So I think those are two separate questions. And so to answer your first one, I think I always knew that I wanted to be doing something artistic, I am so artistically inclined. And I don't just mean in painting and drawing. I have always loved music, I play guitar. And I sing a little just, you know, here and there. And I also have gotten really interested in dance. I love creative writing. So that was, I think, the root source of like this whole confusion that I went through in college, because when I arrived, I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to study. And I think like I said before, in my head, I just figured that I needed to do something more academically focused in order to be successful. because traditionally speaking society tells you that anything artistic makes it very difficult for you to make a good living out of and so I kind of fell into that trap and I ignored all my hobbies and real interests and went for Computer Science because it was something that I really had no experience in. And I'm definitely someone who likes to challenge myself and to learn new things. And so that's how I fell into that. And I kind of thought it would be a little more creative than it is. And I would argue that it is still a creative job. It's just not creative in the way I wanted it to be. So, yes, I knew I wanted to be doing something creative. It's a big reason why I left because I wasn't feeling fulfilled in that kind of creativity. And at some point, I was going to go into the animation industry for that specific reason. But as far as like starting my own business and having my own shop, no, not at all, I never thought I'd be doing an entrepreneurial kind of venture. I was just really inspired by all these YouTubers, and everything really manifested itself. In my last year of college, I took an entrepreneurship class the year before. And it was so funny, because I remember being in that class, I was trying to get out of another requirement that I had to take that I didn't want to do. And I was sitting there and I was like, there's no way I'm ever going to be an entrepreneur, like, I don't even really care about this stuff. Like this is just not for me. And then here we are. So it was just funny, because in that last year, I started meeting a lot of other entrepreneurs at my school, who had been successful, and were very goal oriented like myself. And I think they inspired me to show and showed me that it is super possible, I always thought starting a business had to be super complicated, and it really doesn't. And then in the first months post school, I was also working for a startup, I was interning as a graphic designer, just to kind of gain some experience. So again, I got that inside look of what it meant to run your own business. And so I think just seeing someone do it made it seem like a much more realistic thing for me to do. And it definitely opened doors for me, because in my family, there are no entrepreneurs. So it really helped just seeing other people my age, do it and be successful with it.
Dana:That's a very good point. And I like how you seem to have a me from, you know, my understanding is that you have a very good understanding of why doing this works for you and why probably working as an engineering doesn't work for you, you have a very clear idea, you know, for the why. And I think that's amazing. I wonder how much time did you spend figuring this out?
Tatiana:Yeah, so this was definitely not an overnight decision at all. And it had basically been like, all four years in the making, to be honest, I remember my first year of college, I like I said, I did computer science to learn something new, and something that I knew would challenge me. And I mean, it was challenging. And then I got my first internship that summer. And I remember thinking that I was not enjoying it at all. But in my head, I was like maybe it's just a sector that this specific company is in. And that's why I don't like it. That's what I told myself at least. And I didn't want to give up either. So I'm like, I think I'd be too close minded if I just kind of shoved this aside, so I need to give it another chance. And so then the following summer, I got an internship at a big tech company as a software engineer. And this one I was super excited for, because I had heard a lot of positive positive experiences from other people. And while the overall internship was fantastic, it was definitely not something I saw myself doing long term. I think I also just had a harder time relating to other people who were there. Like, I could see how excited they were to be doing the work that they were doing. Whereas like, for me, it wasn't the same kind of fulfillment. Yeah, like, it was such a weird complex too, though, just because, you know, I felt super grateful to be there. Don't get me wrong, I was so excited to be there. But I felt like something was off for me. And I just couldn't understand why. So in my head, I was like, maybe it's just maybe it's too technical of a position and the company is fine. So I came back the following summer, to do a to a program manager position. So I think this is nice. It's still in the tech space. But it's not super technical, where I'm coding every single day. And while that experience was nice, because I did get to do some design work. Again, it was still some kind of a disconnect, where I just was not enjoying my day to day work. I love my team. I love the company and what they stood for and just how they operated. But for me specifically, it just was not what I wanted to do. I needed something more creative in my life. And another big thing that I think made me realize that this wasn't for me was that I love learning and growing about new things. And I think with this specific role, I felt that maybe it was too niche. So everything that I was learning was a lot, but it was all really in one specific sector that I felt was very difficult to carry over onto like other subjects and other areas of life. And so what I loved about business is like, I'm wearing so many different hats. And I've just seen so much personal growth, because there's so many things I've had to learn, not only in just how I think about things, you know, like manifestations and all those things, but also just in learning about marketing and learning about finance. So I just feel myself growing a lot as a person. And I'm enjoying that. But going back to your question with how long it took, it was all four years, I kept trying different things, because I didn't want to quit, I kept changing little things here and there to see what would actually work for me in the long run. And I just remember, like calling my parents, basically, this was like a routine thing, maybe like twice a year or something, I would call them and just freak out freak out. Because I was like, you know, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I think maybe I should, like reverse my major, my minor. So maybe I should major in digital arts and just minor in computer science and focus more on artistic things. And every time we had this conversation, it always resulted in, no, you should say computer science, and keep the digital arts as your minor. That's the best bet. But I think all of us kind of fell into that trap of logically speaking, that was definitely the best option. But it wasn't the best option for me. So I think at that fourth year, I was just kind of like, fed up with it and realize I need to make a change for my own mental health. Because I was also struggling with anxiety and depression. And I just felt that continuing this way I was going to burn out. And it was just going to make things a lot more difficult for me. So I basically made that decision for myself. And even though I had no backup plan, I still felt so much relief. When I let go of that job offer even though it was so scary. I just felt that new things were coming, good things were coming. And I was gonna figure it out. Either way, I had that confidence in myself. And I think that's what really allowed me to say, no, it's time to do what's right. For me,
Dana:it did take four years for you to kind of figure it out. But I'm really happy that you didn't end up working in, let's say, tech, or some kind of engineer related roles for too long. Because I think once you get into it, and then you have, you know, five years, 10 years, 20 years experience behind you, it's going to be much harder to walk away from it.
Tatiana:Yes, and that was definitely my thought process behind it too. It was like, definitely would have been so much nicer to figure this out earlier on, or at least have listened to my gut earlier on. But at the same time, I just graduated college and I was like now is a good time to make that change if you're ever going to make that change. Because if I had waited down the line, I mean, I would have had to move to Seattle, that's already a cost in itself. And I think it there would have been a lot of other factors I would have had to take into account. Whereas when I graduated college, like everyone goes through a transition period, there now is the right time to basically choose the right path for me. And I was also fortunate enough that my parents allowed me to come back home and live with them while I figured things out, which, you know, saves me a ton of money, allowing me to put it back into my business. And at the same time, even though I said I wish I would have figured this out earlier, tech also allowed me to learn a bunch of different skills to network as well as to save up money that has also allowed me to fund my new business ventures now. So I'm still super grateful for everything that happened. And I'm glad it happened the way it did. I think I needed to be lost in order to end up on where I am now. Because had I not gone through all that I definitely would not have explored this as a career path at all.
Dana:And when you said that tech was helpful, did you say that? Did you mean that because you were able to intern and work at some places and get paid and that like went into part of your investment?
Tatiana:Right. So it was the money part of it. But it was also just learning how a company is run? What policies need to be in place in order to run efficiently? How does a team work together in order to deliver a product? What goes into it? So I think kind of getting that behind the scenes of an actual Corporation was very insightful. And not only that, but the company I was at was also really big on letting interns chat with full time employees there no matter what their role was. And I took full advantage of that. I mean, I think I had probably over 20 different conversations with different people. Like I was just emailing them like oh, like this is interesting. I want to talk to them. And everyone was super sweet and super helpful. And so I got to see a lot of perspectives. And I had, you know, conversations with people who were very technically minded, also having conversations with people who were very creative minded. And I think they all really helped me understand that I needed to be doing something creative. I think that's where I had the first realization that, you know, I need a role that allows me to express my creativity. And that could be intact, because there are more creative roles in tech. I just had to search for them. But I think overall, I felt like I needed to restart completely. And that's just kind of why I decided to leave and take that break. I mean, it's always there as a backup if I want to return, which is the fantastic thing about it. But I think now is the right time to try something new to do something entrepreneurial, just because it can be risky. But right now I have like the least to lose basically. Honestly, sure. Yeah. So So I'm going for it. And it's taught me a lot.
Dana:And how was the experience of graduating in COVID? Like, what is it like and, you know, doing internship and
Angela:And having to start a business and COVID? Exactly. Yeah.
Tatiana:Yeah. So it's been wild, especially because I graduated a semester early. And I remember thinking to myself, like, like, Am I making the right choice? Should I just stay an extra semester? Like, be with my friends? have it be pretty chill? No, I'm so glad I graduated this semester, I did, because then COVID hit that spring. And then all my friends basically had to leave campus without like, really being able to say bye to everyone. And so I'm, I feel very fortunate there. But as far as like, actually, like, job wise, and everything, I guess, I'm glad that I decided to do my own thing. But that was part of the reason why it also led me here was because I was still trying to maybe get a position either as a graphic designer, or some kind of like manager in the animation industry. But I realized that in doing so is really hard for me to get a position in that area, or to be taken seriously, because every time I went in for an interview, they always tried to push me into the tech department, which I totally understand why I mean, that's just what my resume screamed. But in my head, I was like, No, like, I'm trying to get away from that. And so I just kind of felt like I had to create my own opportunity there. But as far as like starting my own business, and COVID, I think it's been the perfect time for it, I say it's definitely a bit more of a competitive space now, because a lot of people are trying to do the same thing. But at the same time, there's also a lot more resources out there for us to utilize, and to learn. And I think a lot of people have become very clever as to how they can make money online. And so I have found it to be a, it's been pretty seamless for me in that respect. I've like found the programs that I needed, the resources that I've needed. COVID has also given me a lot more time to actually really focus and, and not feel ashamed to kind of let go a little bit of that social life just because we're all stuck at home. And so like, it's not like my friends are constantly asking me to like go do this or go do that. So it's given me a lot more time to really dive deep into this and focus as well as not have that like whole FOMO issue either, because no one no one's really doing anything fun now. So it's kind of motivated me more to actually have something come out of COVID. For me.
Dana:That's such a interesting perspective. And I really appreciate that, because I guess I never thought that. I mean, you're right COVID can like during this time, if you're not, if you're not going out partying, drinking, eating, you know, hanging out with your friends, you're spending a lot of time at home, and it's actually a lot of valuable time that can be used working towards something, you know, and I think that's absolutely true. I find that to be true for myself as well. I think this year I'm able to, since we're all staying at home, just putting a lot of time into like the podcast with a blog that we're we have going and I think that's absolutely true. And minus the time of traveling to work and commuting driving. So So yeah, or go out and wait in line.
Tatiana:Yes, definitely force us to get more creative with activities you can do in the home. And I think that's also you know why I started YouTube also why I went back into art just because like I had all this extra time. So might as well use it in a way that's productive, which like I was also in a much healthier state of mind allowing me to do this.
Angela:Yeah, I wanted to ask about the current state of your business because I see that you have a website and you're selling your design on some clothings and some artwork. But it also seems like you're kind of dabbling into like business side of potentially coaching. I'm not sure if that's the right term for it just yet, but tell us Got it?
Tatiana:Yeah, for sure. So I do have the whole apparel business I launched in October, on my own site, Tatiana Marie are calm. And sales have been really nice. Obviously, it's slow. But for like my first launch, I'm super excited with it, I got probably up for like 25 orders, I'm close to like making $1,000 in sales. So for no previous experience, I'm pretty satisfied with it. Obviously, I see there's a lot of growth that can happen. But I've already started working on that I just this past weekend, I worked on transferring some of those things over to Etsy as well. So that I have that Avenue, and I hope to sell on D pop eventually, as well. And so I'm just super excited, I've been working on on a lot of like holiday designs, as well as just new designs to put on the site. So I'm currently waiting on samples for that. But I'm just excited to continue sharing things in that manner. And so going back to the coaching thing, so that's something I've kind of been dabbling with, I'm not really sure if I'm going to turn that into a full service. I have been inspired by a lot of coaches, actually. And I think that's taught me a lot about running my own business as well. I look to them and their resources. But I originally started being very public in my whole journey, just because I wanted to document it. And I think I also wanted to explain myself, I mean, I know I owe no one an explanation. But I, I knew that the decision I was making was a drastic one. And, frankly, something that a lot of people would probably disagree with. And so I wanted to explain where I was coming from and why I was making the transition that I did. And that's where the whole YouTube thing started. So I wanted to share that story, as well as be transparent, because I feel like, you know, originally, I didn't know, if I wanted to open a business, it wasn't really something that had crossed my mind. But it wasn't until I saw how doable it actually was. And that it didn't need to be as complicated as I originally thought that I decided that it was something I wanted to pursue. So I think I just kind of wanted to show that to other people that like, you know, this is an option for a lot of us. And it's definitely doable for the average person as long as you're committed. And, and you have the patience for it. So I think that also goes with my Instagram, I was I started mostly with like a whole personal development journey. Because I needed, I needed to do a lot of work on myself, mental health wise. And so just reading a lot of books and, and learning about different things was super helpful for me. And I wanted to share the tips that I learned with everyone else. And so I started becoming public on Instagram and sharing those posts. And the response that I've gotten has been absolutely amazing, and completely unexpected. So I'm hoping to continue that I have considered coaching services. My only thing is, I think I'm waiting to get more social proof as far as like running my own business and having metrics to actually back me up. Because you know, it's one thing to be a lot of talk, but it's another thing to have actually done it and have something to show for it. So right now it's more about me learning and sharing that with everyone else. And then eventually, if I find you know, if I do if I do get that success, then that'd be something I'm be more open to exploring.
Angela:Wonderful, I love the love that you're like so excited about trying a bunch of things, but then you're also kind of conscious about like know, taking some time for some steps along the way to make sure that you like really get the most out of it. And I think it's amazing, then, you know, just like within a year after graduating from college, you can become your own business owner during COVID. And doing all like really well on all of these different platforms. And you know, I love what you have from your YouTube channel, actually. And that makes me wonder, like, when you kind of in the beginning of when you were still trying to figure out of your transition. What did your friends and family chalian were they mostly supportive or mostly against what you were trying to do?
Tatiana:Yeah, so thank you first and foremost for that compliment. But my so supportive wise, I feel like with my parents, it definitely took them a minute to kind of come around and be fully supportive. They've always been very understanding of where I'm coming from and and have supported me and usually the decisions that I make, but I think to be fully supportive that took them a little bit just to kind of digest it just because I mean we're from different generations and I think they were brought up to believe that you know you got to work to sustain your family and work doesn't necessarily have to be super pleasurable. It's just got to bring money to the table. And eventually you can grow to like it as you learn more. So I think coming in and saying, you know what, like, I don't want to do the traditional route, I'm gonna make money my own way. I think that was a lot for them to take in. But I think they also saw how much I was struggling. Like I said, mentally, and I think they decided that this was also the best course of action for me. And therefore they stood by me, which was fantastic. And, and they still support me more. Now, I think it's really funny, because the whole YouTube thing, I think that was something I always wanted to do, perhaps not in that category. Because obviously, I didn't know that was the route I was going to go down. But I've always wanted to make YouTube videos, and my dad's always been someone who's very private. And so I also barely knew anything about social media before starting this, my Instagram is super private, and it was only like, reserved to the people that I actually knew in person. And so I've just had to learn so much about, like, all these social media platforms, as to how you can use them to market yourself and for business and, and utilizing them to their fullest ability. So it's definitely been a learning curve. But they've come around, and they now they watch all my videos, and they always come in and try to give me feedback, you know, it's really great. But my friends, on the other hand, basically have supported me from the beginning, I think they've saved because they've lived with me, they've seen more of where I was coming from, and the fact that this was definitely more of like, a four year decision, and not an overnight spur of the moment kind of deal. And so I think they've just been really happy to see me grow and blossom in some manner, you know, like, have a more positive attitude towards things. And so they were all very supportive as far as the videos go, and like, the Instagram and they're constantly checking in, like, how are things going, like, I'm super proud of you. And it's so it feels so great. And I'm so happy to have a support system like that, because it just helps so much. It's been wonderful.
Dana:So let's say somebody wants to somebody that's not that artistically inclined, like yourself, and wants to start like a shop or, you know, getting on this trend. What do you have any advice? Or what steps would you walk them through in doing this.
Tatiana:So for print on demand, specifically, I mean, you don't really need to be an artist, I do a lot of my own designs from scratch, and by hand just because it's something I enjoy. But I've seen a lot of people who don't generally have artistic talent get into it. And there are a lot of like, really great services to use. So I know a lot of people use designs on Canva, the little icons that they offer and stuff, they're all free to use for commercial purposes. There are also websites that sell icons for commercial use that you can include in your designs. And it's really coming down to just using like the appropriate fonts and putting everything together, that's what you have to have the eye for is just choosing the right icons that go together, so to speak, and doing your research as well, for like combining trends and seeing what's actually going to sell not necessarily designing what you think is going to sell. And I think the biggest advice, though, like beyond this whole technical aspect of it, is to ask yourself, are you actually fully committed? And do you have the patience to make this work because you know, businesses take time to actually grow and prosper. Not everyone is an overnight success. So if you're like, willing to be fully committed, and you trust yourself to put in the effort to do the research, and to be patient, to see things actually happen, then I think it's the right space for you to get into. And also just with print on demand. There, the main thing is finding your supplier, but I think it's super doable. And it's about finding other people who have done it already and have been successful, and use that as your main source of inspiration as well as your main source of learning.
Dana:So tell me, what were some of the most difficult moments or some of the most happiest, like happiest moments that you've experienced on this journey?
Tatiana:I mean, difficult... there are a lot of things that were difficult. Most of it did happen at the beginning of this whole journey when I was trying to figure out exactly what it was I was going to do because again, I literally had no backup plan. So I was so lost for a couple of months, trying to figure out my next steps. And that was partly why I took that graphic design internship because I needed something in the meantime, and to be exploring something new to feel like productive. And so that was a trying time because I kept like coming up with these ideas and then realizing that maybe they weren't the best For me, and and what was going to sustain me long term? I think that was the hardest part. I've also struggled a lot with deciding, like, when is the right time to invest? And what is the right time? What is the right thing to invest in? Just because I guess I've always been a little more frugal with my spending. But I realized that in business, it's important to invest in the right things, you know, sometimes it makes more sense to pay someone else to do something that's going to take you a long time when you can be using that time to actually make more money instead. And so learning that balance has been a bit of an adjustment for me, I'd say. But it's all part of the process. And I'm learning and same thing with figuring out what it was I wanted to do. Like I said, I kind of sound like I've been all over the place. But I feel like that was part of the process of basically narrowing it down to what I wanted to do. It's all about exploration, and then just having different options. So you find the one that fits best with your personality. Because that, you know, I've also like, came across some other ones, I was like, Oh, you can like become a podcast agent, for instance, where you connect people with podcasters. And, you know, that's a great model for some people. But I wouldn't say necessarily, it's for me, like, I am definitely more of an introverted person. And that's a lot of cold calling. I don't know, that's not my type of thing. It seems very intimidating. But I think those have been the struggles. But at the same time, it's also allowed me to, to grow as I said, as a person and come out stronger and more knowledgeable on the other end. So like I said, every journey has its ups and downs, but, but it's nice to get through that. And then as far as like the happy parts. Honestly, just like launching my business and owning a business has been so fulfilling. Because like I said, I thought it was a super daunting task. And now that I've actually done it, I just feel so proud of myself for having gone through it and basically gone through unknown territory, something I was incredibly unfamiliar with basically how to start from scratch, and learn on my own, I think for that, that has been a super rewarding feeling. And, and kind of breaking free of the social stigma of, well, you need to work in corporate, you need to have a nine to five job like, you're kind of crazy for turning down that offer. I think being able to put my foot down and say no, like, I'm doing this for myself, this is right for me. And now I'm going to show you that I can actually make it happen. I think that's been very empowering for me. And so I really don't have any regrets. Obviously, I have my days where I'm like, oh, like some money, that paycheck would have been nice. But no, you can't always have that. And in the long ride, I know this is gonna pay off. And I'm just so much happier and have time to actually do other things that I enjoyed that was the other thing was that while I was in tech, I think, because my heart wasn't in it, I just felt so drained at the end of the day, that just getting myself to do other activities was such a task, even activities that I enjoyed, I just like did not sorry, did not have the energy for it. And so now that like I'm doing something that I enjoy, like, I just feel so much more energized, and have the time to actually put into other hobbies. Not only that, but also like, my work is something I enjoy now. And therefore I can spend like several hours, like to up to 12 hours a day or more working on it. And it doesn't feel like work, because in some ways, I'm mixing my hobbies into it. And I think that's the ideal. The ideal situation for me.
Angela:Yeah, I totally agree. And I love that kind of how you mentioned, you know, at times, it can feel like certain industries and job titles or certain like, company, I guess sounds so cool, and you know, bright and shiny. And you know, us sometimes would be really drawn to that. But at the same time, I think you kind of didn't like your own self inventory of you know, what really is rewarding to you. Yes, money is always rewarding to probably almost everyone, but it's not going to cut in, you know, above certain level for some of us if the role is not the right fit. Yeah, you're able to see that.
Tatiana:Thank you. And like I'm not trying to know, you know, throw dirt on the corporate world. I think for some people, that's a fantastic opportunity for them. It suits their lifestyles extremely well, and they're very successful and happy there. And I encourage that I think it's fantastic. I think what I'm trying to promote is more just like, you know, do the thing that makes you the happiest that makes you feel the most fulfilled and that you feel that you're having the biggest impact on and and that's what I'm kind of trying to live by.
Dana:What do you think you could do next? You know, now that you have your own store online, I guess we've met A little bit about coaching, possibly other things you're itching to try.
Tatiana:So yeah, definitely, I am trying to focus on one thing at a time, just because I know I'm someone that has a lot of interest. But I don't want to spread myself too thin. And I know with business, it's very important to, to really dive deep into one thing, as opposed to putting your attention everywhere. So I'm first focusing on this whole apparel business, cementing that and letting it grow to a level that is more passive, where I don't have to be such, so hands on on it. So I'm going to focus first on getting that business there and growing it on different channels. And from there, I think I will go back to Amazon FBA and start my research again, and choose a couple products that I want to get started with, because that's another form of passive income. And another way to learn about e commerce and I think my whole experience with the apparel business is actually going to help me there. So so that's gonna be the plan there. And then once I get that underway, my goal is to also begin publishing Kindle books. It is a dream of mine to write a book, I still don't know what the topic is gonna be on. But I've always wanted to become an author. And I think this is a perfect opportunity to do so. There are many courses that teach you how you can actually, you know, create a Kindle book, a lot of people honestly don't even write the books themselves. They hire ghost writers, which was a total shock to me.
Dana:Oh, my God.
Tatiana:yeah, it's completely like legal and standard to do. But that's how people make money. But for me, you know, I really would like to use this information in order to write my own books and be able to share that also on Amazon. And so I have, I have different ideas for expanding and making money. And I think I can all use all these avenues to continue sharing all of it on YouTube, and then eventually possibly turning it into a coaching business. So currently just trying to capitalize on my interest and grow from there.
Dana:And so I'm curious, how much time do you spend, I say, on a weekly basis on your store,
Tatiana:I spend way more than a full time job. It's, it's so fine. Because again, like I said, I'm enjoying the process. The wonderful thing about it is that there's so much flexibility in it. So to be completely honest, I am not a morning person, I do not enjoy waking up early, I will if I have to, but I find that I am the most productive and creative at night. So a lot of times I'll wake up around like nine in the morning or so with an alarm, of course, because I cannot get my body to naturally do that yet. And, and then I'll get to work probably around like 10 or so. And there's a lot that goes into it. It's not just like the store itself, I also have to think about photography. And then like Instagram, now I have two Instagrams to run, like what kind of information do I want to share on this day, I'm learning about Pinterest and marketing that way, and then actually designing or doing the finance part of it, learning about sales tax, all of It's so confusing. Um, so so there's a lot to do in a day. And usually, if it's a very like fun, very motivated, I'll say up to like one in the morning or so I'm just working and just designing. And I guess it's just because nighttime is my best time. But I do take breaks like throughout the day. And just to kind of keep productivity high. When I find that I'm getting very overwhelmed or very frustrated with a specific task, I'll take like a 20 minute break or so. And whether that means going on my phone or taking a 20 minute nap to be honest. I it really allows me to kind of re energize and then refocus back on my task when I come back to it with like a fresh pair of eyes, so to speak. And so I think it's just finding a healthy balance between everything. Obviously, I don't think working this many hours is sustainable in the long run. But because I'm just starting the business, I think it's fair to say like, it's fair enough for me to put all these hours in into it. And I think it'll pay off in the long run. So, so it's it's a lot of work and energy. I also try to balance it out, though, by setting specific tasks that I want to get done in the day, I usually pick around three tasks that are doable, and that are a must for me to finish in that day. And then anything else that I managed to complete are complete bonuses. And so it's just kind of that extra boost of energy you need. And this has really helped me like stay focused and stay motivated without feeling like super overwhelmed. It's like oh my god, there's so much to do. Well, yeah, there's so much to do, but you have so many days to do it. So just divide up the work now. So I do like to set deadlines to kind of keep myself on track. But another thing that I've kind of learned with that is to not be like too harsh on myself, just because that I think, induces a lot of stress. And that's what creates like that toxic work environment. So if I set deadlines, I'm working really hard to meet them. And more often than not, I do end up meeting them, which is great. But on the off day that I need to extend the deadline a little bit. That's okay, I'm not going to beat myself up over it, just because I'm not trying to induce that stress. And I'm not trying to create a toxic relationship with my work. And you know, in the corporate world, this happens as well. We need to extend deadlines every once in a while just because we can't physically get it done. As long as you don't become a habit of doing that, though. I think it's totally fine. And it's a healthy way of balancing everything that needs to get done.
Dana:And lastly, where can people reach you online.
Tatiana:So, online, I am mostly on Instagram and YouTube. So my Instagram is Tatiana Marie with two ends. My YouTube is the same thing. Usually I don't come up on YouTube, though, like one of my videos will which is the why I left my six figure job with no backup plan. But if you filter it through channels, I'll show up there. And then for my website for the actual apparel business, it's Tatiana Marie art.com. That's the same thing for my Etsy and then my art Instagram.
Dana:Thank you so much. Tatianna, we've learned so much from you today. And I really, really enjoyed your passion, your energy, how excited you are for this, you know, business and just so much more that you could grow into. So I'm so happy for you and really, really happy that you got to spend an hour with us today. So thank you so much for your time.
Tatiana:Thank you so much Dana and Angela for having me here as well. It's been a pleasure. I've been super excited to do this first podcast, and it's just been great being able to share my story and talk with someone else about it. So thank you for giving me that opportunity.
Angela:You're so welcome.
Dana:Thank you.